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February 28, 2010

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Watch Review - Orient, Watch Review - Seiko

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Orient 300m CFD0C001B and Seiko 200m SBDC001

Seiko SBDC001 and Orient CFD0C001B

The Orient 300m diver is often compared to the Seiko 200m SBDC001 (aka Sumo) because both watches have similar case diameter and are of similar style. The Orient has a list price of JPY150,000 in Japan while the Sumo is only JPY60,000 (both prices exclude tax).

For a real life divers, there is no comparison. The Orient 300m is a professional diver that is designed to handle saturation diving while the Sumo is only good for scuba diving.

For the rest of us, we compare their physical attributes to decide which one we prefer. If you are choosing between the Orient and Seiko, here is a quick comparison for your reference.

Dial and hands
I don’t see any difference in the quality of the dial and hands except the chrome material surrounding the hour markers is slightly thicker on the Orient than that of the Seiko. You can see the difference in the picture below but when looking at the actual watches, the difference is less noticeable.

Orient CFD0C001B

Seiko SBDC001

Dimension
The Orient measures 45mm across and the Seiko is 44.5mm across (both excluding crown). Lug to lug measurement is 55mm for the Orient vs 52mm for the Seiko. The Orient is 16.5mm thick while the Seiko is 13mm.

Lugs
The Orient’s lug width is 22mm while Seiko’s lug is 20mm.

Orient’s lug design does not require its bracelet to have end pieces. The end pieces are ‘incorporated’ into the watch case. I also notice that when using a nylon band on the watch, the limited space in the lugs actually makes the watch head stay firmly on where you want it to sit on the band.

The lugs seem to be a weak point for the Sumo. 20mm appears to be a bit small for a 44mm watch. Also, the long lugs create a gap when wearing the watch on a rubber strap (see picture below).

Orient CFD0C001M

Seiko SBDC005 CFD0C001b

Bezel and crystal
The Orient has a 60-click bezel whereas the Seiko has one with 120 clicks. Seiko divers are known for their crisp bezel action. The bezel on my Orient 300m feels a bit tight even though it has a better grip than the Seiko. However, the bezel insert on the Orient seems to be of better quality. I do not know what material is used here but the markings are engraved and painted white. It is very easy to read. The Seiko uses a standard aluminum bezel and markings are printed on it.

The Orient is installed with a flat Sapphire crystal with anti-reflection coating while the Seiko uses a slightly curved Hardlex crystal.

Case and finishing
The Orient uses a more standard case design whereas the Seiko has some unique design elements incorporated on its lugs and on both sides of its case. The finishing on both watches are probably on par although the Seiko looks like it may need more man hour for the finishing work.

Caseback
Both watches have beautiful casebacks. Seiko uses brushed finishing on the Sumo’s caseback while Orient chose to do a polished finish. The main difference between the two watches is written on the Orient’s caseback. It is a HE gas diver which the Seiko is not. According to Orient’s website, the watch has a special case design that prevents helium gas from entering the watch.

Wetsuit Extension
Besides the above differences, the wetsuit extension on both bracelets are also different. The Orient uses a better wetsuit extension which is easily released by the via catch on the buckle. This system is the same as the one found on the Seiko Marinemaster. The Seiko Sumo uses a simplified wetsuit extension as shown in the picture below.

Lastly, you should note that both watches beat at 21,600bph. The Seiko is powered by the 6R15 movement which comes with stop second and handwind features. The Orient is powered by the 46N4A movement that has a power reserve indicator. Unlike the Seiko movement, it does not come with stop second and handwind features.

Orient CFD0C001M

43 thoughts on “Orient 300m CFD0C001B and Seiko 200m SBDC001”

  1. Excellent comparison. Fantastic photos too. This is a comparo that I’ve been wanting to read for some time. I couldn’t understand why the Orient was priced so much higher than the Seiko and now I can see it. I probably won’t get either watch but if I ever do this write-up will make my decision easier. Thank You!

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  2. Nice modifications to the straps. These look WAY cooler! Great comparison and pictures to boot! Not to mention your . . Ahhemm! ever expanding universe of watches in your collection! LOL!

    I like the Seiko look better as it’s uncluttered and classical. So is the case back!

    Best regards!

    Ian

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  3. I love to read your articles on Seiko and Orient watches,and their comparisons. I was wondering how the Sumo and the Orient 300m diver compares with the Citizen ecodrive Promaster 300M Titanium BJ8041-09E?

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    • Hi TC,

      I have not handled the Citizen 300m Titanium BJ8041-09E before but from what I see, it is a very different watch.

      – quartz vs automatic movement
      – Ti vs stainless steel
      – different design

      I can’t tell you much until I handled one. 🙂

      Best regards,
      Thomas

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    • Hi Ronald,

      I have received your email and will ask my watch supplier, Big Time to quote you since you are coming to Singapore. I am not a watch seller.

      Best regards,
      Thomas

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  5. Great review and comparison! Love these two watches …. aiming to own both sometimes soon. What’s the difference between the Orient 300m CFD0C001B and the Orient Star 300m WZ0251FD? Which is a better wacth in your opinion? Thanks.

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    • Hi Vo,

      They are the same watch except they have different logos on the dial. The WZ0251FD is for the Japanese market whereas the CFD0C001B is sold in the international market. I think most people would prefer the Orient Star logo.

      Both are made in Japan.

      Best regards,
      Thomas

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  8. Hi! Thomas,

    On the bezel insert of the Orient 300M, you mention it is of better quality.
    The markings is engraved and painted white,
    I have a tricky question.
    Is the black color part is a coating/paint, meaning, it may come off in case of scratch?.

    It is indeed a collectible, considering 150K Yen a huge sum.

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      • Hi Thomas:

        According to orient-watch jp website, the coating is black ceramic coating. Got this from translation of the japanese text to English.

        Regards

        KB

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        • Hi KB,

          The model on the Japanese website is the hack and handwind version that will be launch this month. I didn’t notice that in the past but I suppose the original version also uses the same bezel material.

          Regards,
          Thomas

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  9. Hi Thomas

    I have always wanted a tough long lasting automatic and have chosen the Orient 300m black dial. I like it because if the watch can withstand 300m pressure, surely its not flimsy. But I could not wait for the handwind version coming soon. But not sure whether I would regret for being impatient.

    Tell me where can I get a rubber bracelet for my Orient 300m?

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    • Hi KB,

      I think there’s not much difference between the version you bought and the hack and handwind version. I have three of these ‘original’ version and I am not planning on getting the hack and handwind model.

      Nice meeting you at Big Time btw.

      Thomas

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      • Hi Thomas

        Thanks for your comment. I agree the original version is already such a good deal. I am really happy with my new Orient 300m.

        Please let me know where you get your type of black rubber strap on your Orange Pro Diver. Is it the 22mm Seiko rubber strap for divers? Thanks for willingness to share your knowledge in your blog!

        Like most owners who posted reviews, I intend it as my work horse, and would wear it everyday. I no longer wear long sleeve office shirts and would have no problem wearing such a large watch.

        But I think for comfort sake, a rubber strap would be good. Considering the weight reduction.

        Kok Beng

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        • Hi KB,

          The strap on my orange diver is the original rubber strap that came with the Orient diver. You can use a Seiko Z22 rubber strap if you don’t have it. The Z22 can be purchased at shops that sell Seiko watches.

          You are right that the weight will be reduced if you replace the bracelet with a rubber or leather strap.

          Thomas

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          • Hi Thomas

            Thanks for the info on the Orient 300. A newbie like me certainly benefits from your informative postings.

            I am growing to like the metal bracelet of my Orient. Orient has put a lot of thoughts into the design of the metal bracelet. It is heavy but not uncomfortable. Easy to put on and take out. I would buy the Z22. Plus the nylon textured strap. Plus a black leather one if I can find a nice one.

            Nice to change straps/bracelets to suit occasions without having to change the watch!

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            • Hi KB,

              Z22 and nylon straps are good choices for the watch. As for leather strap, you need to use a pair of thinner spring bars.
              Remember to get a spring bar tool. It makes changing strap so easy.

              Best regards,
              Thomas

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  11. Hello, Yeoman, altough this is an old article, maybe you can answer me this question: How does the Orient 300 handles saturation diving? I did not see any Gas escape valve. One more question, do you have an idea of the price of the Orient 300 in U.S. dollas?

    I really liked the Orient.

    Thanks for ypur time.
    Regards.

    Carmareli from México.

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    • Hi Carmareli,

      This was previously on Orient’s website:

      What is a Saturation Diving Watch?
      If a watch with a regular water resistant design is worn during saturation diving, small helium gas molecules could penetrate the gasket and enter the inside of the watch. This would raise the internal pressure and break the watch when surfacing.
      To resolve this issue, most watches either have an escape valve that is used to adjust the internal pressure as required, or use materials in watch parts such as the gasket that make it difficult for the helium to penetrate.

      Since the watch does not have a HEV, I suppose it uses a special gasket to prevent helium from entering.

      For price, please check with the distributor or online seller. I am not a watch seller.

      Best regards,
      Thomas

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  12. As always, thanks for your time, Thomas, after reading Orients’ answer, it was O.K. with me, but after some seconds, I got a new doubt that I would like to comment with you and anyone else in this blog that could be interested in this issue. This is not necessarily a question for you, altough I would like to know your opinion.
    If a special gaskets were enough for saturation diving, then why brands like Rolex, Omega and some others, still use a much more expensive mecanism known as HEV’s in their new diving watches? The only answer I can think of, is that HEV’s are much safer for real divers than watches with special material gaskets like the Orient 300, but of course, this is only my opinion as a mechanical engineer, with NO experience in watch design cases.
    Talking about the price, I found that the 300 runs for about 2000 american dollars in the U.S., but sometimes you can find it on sale and getting as much as 40 per cent off, I’m starting my hunt for one, in my opinion this Orient is a “must have” one.
    I have always been a Seiko watch fan, since I had my first one at the age of 12, now I´m 53, and due to security reasons, since ten years ago it is too risky to use expensive watches here in México city, then I started to look back again to Seiko, the last one I bought is the 4R15 Diver, I got it last week and I´m very happy with it, but I have to admit that this Orient got my attention.

    Best regards from México City.

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    • Hi Carmareli,

      I’m not sure why brands like Rolex and Omega do not use special gasket. Maybe they prefer to do things in conventional way or they couldn’t use it because Seiko has a patent on it. Seiko Marinemaster uses L-shaped gasket instead of HEV. Perhaps others may want to chime in on this.

      If you are purchasing the Orient 300m diver, go for the new version that can hack and handwind as seen on Orient’s website.

      http://www.orient-watch.com/products/category/item/?category_id=37

      Best regards,
      Thomas

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  17. Great review “thanks” Thomas , i really like the Sumo . Which is why i purchased one , but in all honesty the Orient reviewed here is more better to be compared to the Seiko MM300 as this is a true saturation diver also .

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  19. I checked out the Orient Diver 300m model #EL02001M , @ Big Time watches on 483 Sim’s Ave Singapore . I spoke with Daryl Chang that runs Big Time with his father , he is a very nice guy that throughly knows is Orient & JDM Seikos .
    This model #EL02001M Orient diver is a extremely well built watch for its money , seeing it in person it sure is impressive .

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  20. Pingback: Pictures of my Orient 300m Saturation Diver – EL02003W | Yeoman's Watch Review
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